tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7239577512598038009.post1676640620523997456..comments2024-02-27T01:17:39.925-08:00Comments on The Nine and Thirty Kingdoms: The Spread of MagicTalysmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02162328521343832412noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7239577512598038009.post-40228743460808556732013-07-22T04:51:52.090-07:002013-07-22T04:51:52.090-07:00Are we assuming there is no difference between a 1...Are we assuming there is no difference between a 1st level adventurer and every NPC barmaid, soldier, weaver, and scribe?<br />Also, didn't Talysman mention in his previous posts about casting checks and intelligence requirements for using and learning scrolls?Tenebroushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06628088076663531943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7239577512598038009.post-27331076231823122362013-07-22T00:27:24.329-07:002013-07-22T00:27:24.329-07:00Well, there's the other thing, too, which is t...Well, there's the other thing, too, which is that in addition to those complex and crazy obscurities of alchemy or high explosives manufacture, there is also a tradition of chemistry which is used on a daily basis by people all over: cooking! So, the simpler forms of magic can be widespread while more advanced forms are limited to the specialists.faoladhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03691952430041394614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7239577512598038009.post-4989980365700318182013-07-22T00:16:18.227-07:002013-07-22T00:16:18.227-07:00"I'm not sure where you are getting "..."I'm not sure where you are getting "you don't need to learn how to read magic". Certainly, that was never what I proposed."<br /><br />Well, you said that *every* character can learn and cast spells as a 1st level Magic-User... Since, presumably, every character is not literate, this would require that literacy not be a requirement for magic use.<br /><br />Frankly, the idea that anyone can cast spells with no training doesn't make much sense to me, so I don't really see why being illiterate would be any more of a barrier than being completely ignorant of all things magical.<br /><br />And I don't think you can compare the benefits of being able to write to your wife to say she should fire the pot girl to a spell which could do your days work in 10 minutes...Charles Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00941603544547428940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7239577512598038009.post-33313756747609838322013-07-22T00:06:05.715-07:002013-07-22T00:06:05.715-07:00Sure, and that's how magic normally works - yo...Sure, and that's how magic normally works - you need years, or even decades, of training to be able to use it.<br /><br />That explains why you don't see it anywhere.<br /><br />Talysman (seemed) to propose that literally every person in the world could do magic with no training whatsoever, all they would have to do is find a spell.Charles Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00941603544547428940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7239577512598038009.post-17852919125988221372013-07-21T20:50:07.986-07:002013-07-21T20:50:07.986-07:00I think that the real analogy is with chemistry. T...I think that the real analogy is with chemistry. There are a lot of neat things that you can make using the processes of chemistry (such as <a href="http://www.instructables.com/answers/How-to-make-a-blasting-cap/" rel="nofollow">blasting caps</a>), but they require a lot of practical lab knowledge and theoretical chemistry knowledge to perform with any safety or even with any actual effect! This gets even more difficult if, like the alchemists, the information is buried in layers of analogy and deliberate obscurantism (such as is the case even when an alchemical text can be described as <a href="http://www.alchemywebsite.com/artephiu.html" rel="nofollow">"exceptionally clear"</a>).faoladhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03691952430041394614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7239577512598038009.post-64774291950088397462013-07-21T18:22:04.001-07:002013-07-21T18:22:04.001-07:00Sorry, it's simply not true that reading and w...Sorry, it's simply not true that reading and writing offered no benefit. Which is why there were, indeed, farmhands, soldiers, or weavers who learned to read and write, say, Demotic. There's been a lot of study of personal letters written by Egyptian tradesmen working on remote construction projects -- letters that mostly involve mundane things like directions on running the household or requests to send possessions from home. Literacy may have offered no *perceived* benefit, to some, which, combined with active suppression of literacy, would explain why few farmhands, soldiers, or weavers who became literate.<br /><br />I'm not sure where you are getting "you don't need to learn how to read magic". Certainly, that was never what I proposed.Talysmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02162328521343832412noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7239577512598038009.post-59832143803062081622013-07-21T13:34:35.785-07:002013-07-21T13:34:35.785-07:00The thing you're not getting here is that for ...The thing you're not getting here is that for much of history, learning to read and write offered literally *no benefit*. There was no advantage to a farm hand, soldier, or weaver who could read vs. one who couldn't.<br /><br />With magic, though, the potential benefit is colossal, and the barrier to entry much lower. You don't need to learn how to read magic in general - apparently everyone already knows that - all you have to do is copy a few pages by rote from one book to another.<br /><br />So, in the reading example, the barrier to entry is high, and the potential benefit nil.<br /><br />With magic (as you propose), the barrier to entry is low, and the potential benefit immense.Charles Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00941603544547428940noreply@blogger.com