tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7239577512598038009.post7768904762874559612..comments2024-02-27T01:17:39.925-08:00Comments on The Nine and Thirty Kingdoms: Bards Without SpellsTalysmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02162328521343832412noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7239577512598038009.post-46515810354569799392012-09-29T10:53:20.663-07:002012-09-29T10:53:20.663-07:00Actually, the large post I was writing that got de...Actually, the large post I was writing that got deleted was about building custom classes, so that's coming up. And the re-purposing of research rules for training was in a separate post, somewhere... I'm just summarizing it in the classes for those who missed.Talysmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02162328521343832412noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7239577512598038009.post-4627066247558329182012-09-29T07:49:28.687-07:002012-09-29T07:49:28.687-07:00You know what else would be useful? A list of all ...You know what else would be useful? A list of all the perks and costs that make up classes, and guidelines to putting them together to make classes. Something like a 9 and 30 Kingdoms guide to building custom classes.<br /><br />Also, you have used "magic research rules for languages and weapon proficiencies" in several classes now; maybe that deserves a dedicated post? It's a very interesting idea, though I'm finding that in my current game the costs seem <i>very</i> prohibitive (the magic-user player is going to be so happy once the <i>wizard lock</i> research is finally done).Necropraxishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12716340801054739658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7239577512598038009.post-79581522719537149912012-09-28T21:37:53.327-07:002012-09-28T21:37:53.327-07:00I would not suggest specific spell-like effects. F...<i>I would not suggest specific spell-like effects. First. because those are included in the 2d6 turning roll...</i><br /><br />Ah yes, sorry, I can see that now. Yep, that would give the players some flexibility in coming up with ideas for the bard character.<br /><br />And yes the Cleric progression would tie in well with a less thiefy bard. :-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7239577512598038009.post-62395365911747539852012-09-28T16:53:33.095-07:002012-09-28T16:53:33.095-07:00Probably I'd use sorrow and anger, which inter...Probably I'd use <a href="http://9and30kingdoms.blogspot.com/2012/04/sorrow-and-anger.html" rel="nofollow">sorrow and anger</a>, which interestingly I wrote around the same time as your post. But there's also the question: should there even *be* such a thing as an NPC Bard?Talysmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02162328521343832412noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7239577512598038009.post-50955845810300946202012-09-28T16:09:55.719-07:002012-09-28T16:09:55.719-07:00How does it work when an NPC enemy bard attempts t...How does it work when an NPC enemy bard attempts to use the "influence" ability on a PC?<br /><br />See also here:<br /><br />http://untimately.blogspot.com/2012/04/social-combat-is-asymmetric.html<br /><br />That being said, I like this a lot.Necropraxishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12716340801054739658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7239577512598038009.post-63785460309733949542012-09-28T15:34:54.568-07:002012-09-28T15:34:54.568-07:00I like bard charm as turn, which is a nice way to ...I like bard charm as turn, which is a nice way to use the same rules for other things, like assassination or something. OTOH if you streamline the game so classes work alike everybody feels bland. <br /><br />Personally my main problem with the Bard is that D&D doesn't model social conflict with rules - that's roleplaying, or a player challenge rather than a character challenge. Traps, tricks, puzzles, combat, adventure logistics, resource management, all of these are some combination of player skill and character skill. <br /><br />Let me give you an example: a PC trait or class that makes you good at managing equipment. You're really good at knowing what to purchase, for a good price, packing and maintenance, generally just handling inventory. You can tear off the part of your character sheet that deals with non-magical invetntory because you can just make a skill roll to handle that now. <br /><br />Maybe some people like that idea. But I think it takes away a huge part of the player skill in the game. It's the same with social skills in my opinion. <br /><br />It's possible for the game to turn into: <br />DM Describes Obstacle<br />Player Makes Roll<br />DM Says Fail or Success<br />Return to Step 1<br /><br />You could boil that game down to a PC on a playing card with 10 stats and a standard "roll d6+stat over obstacle rating". You don't even need to describe the stats, just Stat1 is used against Obstacle1 and so forth. <br /><br />That's an extreme example and a slippery slope fallacy, but what I'm trying to get at is that some things are good to model with game mechanics and others are good to model with player skill. Most will be come combination, because mechanics create structure and player skill creates involvement. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7239577512598038009.post-89690003601788690462012-09-28T15:18:46.911-07:002012-09-28T15:18:46.911-07:00If you dump the Thief abilities, you should probab...If you dump the Thief abilities, you should probably make the bard a limited Fighter. Actually, I meant to make the Thief-y Bard HD progression the same as the original M-U (1 HD every other level,) and an alternative Fighter-y Bard would progress like a Cleric, perhaps with a broader range of weapons and armor.<br /><br />I would not suggest specific spell-like effects. First. because those are included in the 2d6 turning roll (use HD of target or level of spell as HD of equivalent undead.) Second... well, earlier today I was writing a large post about exactly why, but my computer blue-screened. I will be writing that post sometime this weekend.Talysmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02162328521343832412noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7239577512598038009.post-17554569450619643932012-09-28T15:05:35.673-07:002012-09-28T15:05:35.673-07:00Actually, on second thoughts I'd dump the thie...Actually, on second thoughts I'd dump the thief abilities (which I was never comfortable with - just another thief with a lute) and instead grant the bard spell-like effects at various levels, such as suggestion, charm, hold, confusion, etc.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7239577512598038009.post-81673919938777334492012-09-28T15:01:44.731-07:002012-09-28T15:01:44.731-07:00You know Talysman, this might just be the one. Aft...You know Talysman, this might just be the one. After 30+ years of failed bard classes I think you may have cracked it. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com