... is there anyone who actually LIKES level-draining no-save monsters? Really? I think no one really likes these. Its stupid. Its not a clever mechanic, the kind of risk it creates is not an exciting in-game risk (like poison, or attribute drain, etc), but rather something that steals away your accomplishments.Well, I like it. Because it isn't stupid, and I can't see how it's any different than injury or poison. And certainly I like it better than attribute drain, which I think is an annoying mechanic. (Really? You want seven hit point pools instead of one?)
Now, The RPG Pundit is one of those people who has opinions about what other people's opinions are. He's not impossible to deal with, as some other people like that are, but yeah, sometimes it makes him say stuff like this. No one really likes level drain, and you're lying if you say you do. Because even though you say the risk is exciting, you aren't really excited by it.
I don't agree with The RPGPundit but I don't like level drain either.
ReplyDeleteI do think it is bad game design. I prefer ability drain myself.
Some people prefer one thing, some prefer another. That's to be expected. But fortunately, I'm not going to tell you that everyone actually thinks ability drain is stupid and no one likes it.
DeleteThe main thing I like about level drain -- as I commented at the pundit's post -- is that players get freaked out by it and act scared. (Rust monsters do the same thing for armor/weapon-heavy characters only.)
ReplyDeleteCompare that to things like the 'fright check' in GURPS or SAN tests in CoC and (while I like both those systems for other reasons) there is no comparison. You want some fear in your game, a threat to the actual character is the surest way. IMO.
I assume a lot of people hate level drain because it's abused like medusas and save-or-die.
Yeah, "you're not actually enjoying this thing you say you're enjoying" is laughable.
ReplyDeleteIt does require care as a referee to use properly, but then so do all of the very dangerous hazards.
I really like level drain (though I don't use it very often). It is one of the few powers that a monster has that really scares players — precisely because it does steal their accomplishments. It also presents the possibility of new adventures as players are afforded opportunity to regain that which was stolen.
ReplyDeleteOur party recently entered a mine full of wights. It was terrifying, and exciting. Even if restoration is available in town at a price, as in our game, it's still a significant time and monetary set back.
ReplyDeleteIn Barrowmaze, we love us some level draining!
ReplyDeletehaving died from ability drain of late i dont see as "better way to die" - lv drain great - easily fixed and makes players in debt to priests which is good for gm. Players should be scared of undead. some spells and items to resist would be nice - a ring that stopped you dropping below 1st lv. Just run away get some cleric hirelings come back - easy.
ReplyDeleteI don't particularly like level-drain, but I am too lazy to use ability drain. It is a fearsome ability that makes players respect monsters.
ReplyDeleteThere's a lot of stuff about D&D that doesn't make sense such as armor making it harder to be hit as opposed to reducing damage and then there's the very unrealistic weight and damages of the weapons, but despite all of that, D&D just works. It's a hell of a fun game and makes for a great way to enjoy several hours with your friends.
Funny that, the bit on 'nostalgia for nostalgia's sake', considering my D&D experience started a bit later on when level drain was pushed aside. And personally, I love level drain. I don't use it often but that's because the undead with it aren't found often. Nothing is more sinister and terrifying for the players to watch their plate-fighter tough visibly withering. I've been at odds of making the losses permanent or(very slowly) recoverable.
ReplyDelete@Joshua
DeleteRemember that just getting new XP could be the implementation of very slow recovery.