I saw this interesting statement in a forum thread: "the concept of one hit point mooks is such a dissociated mechanic that it completely defeats the purpose of an rpg IMO."
I have a strong dislike of mook rules, but the use of 1 hit point isn't a problem to me. And it's certainly not dissociated from the fictional reality, to me. I chalk this up to the different ideas about "hits". To my way of thinking, one hit equals one kill. Well, a one in six chance of a kill. If anything, it's the damage roll that's dissociated.
In my mind, it's not so much that either is dissociated, it's that the concepts of hit points, to-hit rolls, and damage rolls are poorly defined, blend unrelated concepts, and overlap to some degree.
ReplyDeleteFor instance (in many editions), the to-hit roll incorporates armour and innate defensive ability (i.e. Dex bonus). But hit points represent your growing ability to defend yourself as well, as your increasing hit points represents your ability to avoid being killed in combat. So the ideas of hard-to-hit and hard-to-hurt are split between AC and HP in a weird way.
Which makes it hard to make intuitive calls about stuff like this.
1 HP mooks certainly doesn't seem too odd to me - it's entirely possible in all the editions I'm familiar with for a 1st level or unleveled character to have 1HP. In fact, it probably explains why they're mooks and not big baddies! Not enough HP to really climb the ranks of evil-doers.
1 HP Mook versions of 150 hp monsters baffle me but I've got no issue with a mob of goblins, black hooded thugs, or skeletons that each go down with a single blow.
ReplyDeleteI might also point out that if you have d6 hit points and take d6 damage, you actually have a 58% chance of dying, not 1 in 6. But maybe I misunderstood the situation you were describing.
ReplyDeleteI'm talking about 1 hit of damage. If someone has 1d6 hit points and takes 1 point of damage, there's a 1 in 6 chance that they have 1 hit point and are slain.
Delete"1 HP mooks certainly doesn't seem too odd to me - it's entirely possible in all the editions I'm familiar with for a 1st level or unleveled character to have 1HP. In fact, it probably explains why they're mooks and not big baddies! Not enough HP to really climb the ranks of evil-doers."
ReplyDelete"1 HP Mook versions of 150 hp monsters baffle me but I've got no issue with a mob of goblins, black hooded thugs, or skeletons that each go down with a single blow."
I suspect that this is where the original objection comes from. 4e introduced (to D&D, if I recall it was cribbed from another system) the idea of advanced 1 HP minions, who have to-hit and AC and spellcasting/skills/class features appropriate to high-level NPCs but go down at the first hit. The theory being somewhere in the neighborhood of 'even a crowd of black-hooded thugs aren't a threat to Joe the 11th level fighter, and we want Joe to worry about the mooks but ALSO be able to wade through them slaying them left and right.'
So it is a subversion of the whole HD-as-approximation-of-ability measurement that D&D had been using all along. It's not a mechanic disassociated from simulation - like the post says, one hit meaning (a chance of) one kill is fine. It's a mechanic that is disassociated from other D&D mechanics, though, if that makes any sense.
Maybe the 1-HP-ness of the monster has more to do with morale. The black-robed guy might be a scrawny dude with no swordsmanship training and bad shoes, so if he gets stabbed in any way he's going to either die, pass out from the pain, flee, or play dead. Maybe he can cast some spells, but he's not adventurer-material, so he's still got 1 HP.
ReplyDeleteBut take a standard 1st level adventurer, someone with moxie and determination, fighting for something he believes in, he's able to take more punishment before he quits.
That said, I think it would be a very rare Ogre or higher who would scamper off or faint at the sight of his own blood. And anything like a 10 HD monster with 1 HP is just silly. If my PC killed a dragon with 1 damage the first thing I'd do is disbelieve illusions because it's unbelievable to me that something that dumb would happen.
Mooks were built into D&D in 1st edition. They were called 0-level humans, giant rats, kobolds, etc.
As for wanting Joe to worry about the mooks, heck, there are MANY ways to go about that. Look up Tucker's Kobolds.