"Old school" only makes sense as a term if D&D is your primary frame of reference.
Car Wars, for example, is an very old role playing game that is in the the mold of The Fantasy Trip. However... most of the faults that OSR types find with 4e D&D exist in Car Wars as well: linear adventures, obsession with particular builds rather than a history developed in play, not a lot of room for "role playing", etc. I think most play styles were in effect in a very rapid period of time. (Maybe we had to wait a while for the emo-goth-punk storytelling horror style, though...?)
The term "Old School" was necessitated when 3.5 and 4e D&D departed so much from the styles of play that 0e, AD&D1e, and B/X engendered. There was a marked for that style of play and it coalesced around the things that set it apart from more current editions of the game.
Car Wars was originally marketed as a role playing game and the earliest Space Gamer and Autoduel Quarterly articles supported it as such. It is perfectly legitimate for an rpg design to be rules-light and focused on combat oriented scenarios.
Anyways, Car Wars is most definitely *not* a role-playing game, because SJG (makers of Car Wars) later made GURPS Autoduel, so that people who wanted to role-play in the Car Wars setting could do so. You *could* make up your own freeform role-playing rules and combine them with Car Wars, or use it in combination with an RPG system. It's like claiming Melée is a role-playing game; it isn't, not by itself.
You can run the role playing adventure "Convoy" from ADQ 1/1 with just the original Car Wars pocket box. You have encounters... rumors to discover... and a "road-crawl" instead of a dungeon or hex-crawl. Is your definition of "role playing game" really so stringent as to exclude that?
Not the same situation at all. Blue Planet and Traveller were created by other companies, then SJG did a GURPS version of each. Not the same as SJG taking one of their own tactical games and turning it into a GURPS worldbook.
As for the Car Wars issue: I don't really care. It looks like a tactical game to me. Did people write individual scenarios with role-playing elements, or play the game as if it were a role-playing game? Probably. People have done that with all sorts of games. But it has nothing to do with the topic of my post.
... Or, actually, it *could* be relevant. If you were to count Car Wars as an RPG, it would be of the naive sort. Mostly. See the next post, then comment on whether Car Wars seems naive or self-aware.
"Old school" only makes sense as a term if D&D is your primary frame of reference.
ReplyDeleteCar Wars, for example, is an very old role playing game that is in the the mold of The Fantasy Trip. However... most of the faults that OSR types find with 4e D&D exist in Car Wars as well: linear adventures, obsession with particular builds rather than a history developed in play, not a lot of room for "role playing", etc. I think most play styles were in effect in a very rapid period of time. (Maybe we had to wait a while for the emo-goth-punk storytelling horror style, though...?)
The term "Old School" was necessitated when 3.5 and 4e D&D departed so much from the styles of play that 0e, AD&D1e, and B/X engendered. There was a marked for that style of play and it coalesced around the things that set it apart from more current editions of the game.
"Car Wars" is a very old game; we didn't consider it a role-playing game in my neck of the woods, back in the day.
ReplyDeleteCar Wars was originally marketed as a role playing game and the earliest Space Gamer and Autoduel Quarterly articles supported it as such. It is perfectly legitimate for an rpg design to be rules-light and focused on combat oriented scenarios.
ReplyDeleteUnintentional comedy, or best snark ever? You decide!
ReplyDeleteI vote yes for both and neither. :)
ReplyDeleteLooks like we've gotten way off base...
ReplyDeleteAnyways, Car Wars is most definitely *not* a role-playing game, because SJG (makers of Car Wars) later made GURPS Autoduel, so that people who wanted to role-play in the Car Wars setting could do so. You *could* make up your own freeform role-playing rules and combine them with Car Wars, or use it in combination with an RPG system. It's like claiming Melée is a role-playing game; it isn't, not by itself.
By that logic Blue Planet and Traveller weren't role playing games because SJG later made GURPS Blue Planet and GURPS Traveller.
ReplyDeleteYou can run the role playing adventure "Convoy" from ADQ 1/1 with just the original Car Wars pocket box. You have encounters... rumors to discover... and a "road-crawl" instead of a dungeon or hex-crawl. Is your definition of "role playing game" really so stringent as to exclude that?
ReplyDeleteNot the same situation at all. Blue Planet and Traveller were created by other companies, then SJG did a GURPS version of each. Not the same as SJG taking one of their own tactical games and turning it into a GURPS worldbook.
ReplyDeleteAs for the Car Wars issue: I don't really care. It looks like a tactical game to me. Did people write individual scenarios with role-playing elements, or play the game as if it were a role-playing game? Probably. People have done that with all sorts of games. But it has nothing to do with the topic of my post.
... Or, actually, it *could* be relevant. If you were to count Car Wars as an RPG, it would be of the naive sort. Mostly. See the next post, then comment on whether Car Wars seems naive or self-aware.
ReplyDelete