... now with 35% more arrogance!

Wednesday, March 21, 2012

Roleplaying, Not Rulesplaying

I don't often point to Tao of D&D posts, but this one is short and to the point. I had a stint where I was involved with the Forge forums, and I did start to think that you don't really need rules to enforce playstyles; that the purpose of rules is not to punish people who fail to play the game the way you want them to, and especially not to force them to become actors and play roles in way you find moving,

In fact, I believe that RPG rules should really be about making interesting stuff happen so that players can react to it through their characters. As it so happens, that's my definition of "roleplaying game".

13 comments:

  1. Alexis at his hyperbolic best. Despite Alexis' protestations, roll-playing does indeed inhibit role-playing, to the extent that the player focuses on the dice rather than the scene and his character's reaction to it.

    Like you, I like interesting stuff in my games. But a players reliance on dice-rolls to determine their reaction and fate, in relation to interesting stuff, robs the game of outside-the-box thinking.

    The rules should reward that sort of gaming, not attribute and skill min-maxing, which is the hallmark of rollplaying games.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @Aaron: It depends on how you define "rollplaying". I hope that it's clear from my post that I am taking it to mean "anything in rules or mechanics that doesn't exist solely to enforce 'playing in character' or "furthering the story'."

      In my experience, reducing a situation to mechanics, but allowing players talk you out of it, encourages players to roleplay, in the sense of "act in character". Creating rules which reward or enforce playing in character, ironically, rarely results in roleplaying, if a player is stubbornly refusing to roleplay. Instead, they shift the arena of conflict from an imagined fictional situation to the metarules that govern player options. They start gaming the drama system or story-creation system.

      Delete
    2. Yes, ones definition of roll-playing will affect how one views the issue.

      I define roll-playing as a focus on character attributes and skills.

      Story games can be just as much a roll-playing game as a tactical combat game, if both rely on dice mechanics to resolve the episodes.

      I think you're conflating story games with role-playing games. I don't think they are necessarily the same thing.

      Delete
  2. Too bad you couldn't say it on my blog, Aaron.

    Also too bad that "should" does not make it real.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I would, but your commenting policy is not terribly welcoming. If I gently chided you for hyperbole on your blog, would my comments get posted?

      As for the "should", DMs "should" be encouraged, in an RPG ruleset, to reward creative players. Instead, all I see are rewards for rolling dice. I agree, shoulds don't make anything real, rules (and guidelines) do.

      I can only presume that your recent post in in reaction to some perceived intellectual error somewhere in the blogosphere. I'd be interested in the link so I can see what has you so incensed.

      Delete
    2. I didn't see anything you wrote above that I wouldn't publish, except the slur about probably not publishing you.

      I don't know why so many people haven't noticed that I approve arguments against me all the time. What I don't approve is inappropriate or insulting statements about my character or my motivations.

      Delete
    3. Oh, meant to add. It was not a post written about anyone's specific point; it was about a general sentiment I've seen communicated in dozens of places. That is why there is no link.

      Delete
    4. Fair enough. Next time i'll comment directly at the source.

      Delete
  3. To add to Aaron's comment:

    I've noticed that Keep on the Borderlands... when played with the Moldvay basic rules... is pretty much impossible to survive if you walk right into it expecting everything to be "balanced". In fact, to successfully overcome the challenge of the module, you'll have to do all kinds of things that are not covered by any rules whatsoever. Negotiation, deals, weird oil traps, spells used in unexpected ways. Also... there's no explicit rules for how/when to restock the dungeon or how the denizens of the Caves will react to the players tactics and strategies. The bulk of the game's action then... is left to the referee just making something up.

    Not what I was expecting, but strangely satisfying. The tone is far closer to that of the old Zork games than I ever really realized.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Would it be wrong to say that role playing games can be either or both?

    There is nothing wrong with a game that is just a set of mechanical systems and advice on how to use them to run a game. There is nothing wrong with a game that is completely about 5th grade roller skating enthusiasts, complete with pre-generated characters and a pre-set list of scenes that need to be played through.

    While I would sure like the first over the second, there is assuredly someone out there that would prefer the second and I'm happy about that.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @Steven: The issue is not what a game is "about", or whether characters are pre-gen and scenes restricted in some way. The issue is whether the rules govern character and situation, or instead govern player participation. There's a continuum: you can have rules that are 1% about the fictional events and 99% about enforcing how characters ought to behave or how the story should develop. Technically, such a game would still include roleplaying, but just barely... and more to the point, the roleplaying exists in spite of, rather than because of, the rules added to encourage it.

      Delete
    2. I just want to add to this to Talysman's statement here, which I agree with. Roleplaying will ALWAYS exist in spite of rules - it is a biological imperative.

      Delete
  5. jeffro,

    I haven't heard an interpretive argument of an existing piece of literature with that much wish fulfillment in it since the last time I went to church.

    Your argument for the existence of roleplaying in D&D is that Keep on the Borderlands is too deadly without negotiation?

    That's inspired, brother! Preach that gospel!

    ReplyDelete