... now with 35% more arrogance!

Friday, August 31, 2012

More Rage Against the Undead

David Macauley hammers home the point I was making Monday, but with much more detail, since he's trying to be rational rather than snarky. Since he compares the OSR to a music style (punk,) which ties into Tim's rebuttal comparing the OSR to an art movement (pre-Raphaelites,) I just want to add: the thing about art movements or music styles is that they never really die, because (again) they aren't things, but are descriptions of events and behavior. There are always people re-discovering and copying one style or another, or remixing parts of an old style. What we're really talking about is whether 30 million people pay attention to what you're doing and talk about it -- because as everyone knows, if 30 million people aren't talking about your art, music, or hobby and trying to join in, your interests are worthless.


  1. I get your point, but allow me to add one other.

    I can still enjoy the paintings and art of the PRB and I can still listen to punk. But the times and environment that they were created are over. A modern painter could do an update to "Lady Lilith" or cover The Clash (pre-Combat Rock), but they are not part of those movements.

    1. Who says Tim? You says? I moved in punk circles in the early 80s, several years into the so-called post-punk era. Those people had no doubts that they were punks no matter what others might say about their movement being dead.

      It's usually people from within a movement, particularly those who were there in the early days, who are the ones crying "_ is dead".

    2. Hmm, that sounded a bit harsh. What I mean is that anchoring a movement to a moment in time is a job for historians. Such black and white judgements often belie the reality of the people who are actually involved.

    3. @David: Yeah, I was going to say something about tying movements, genres, or styles to specific times is more like something a historian -- or critic -- would worry about, which should have no bearing on whether the activities or even "goals" associated with that movement are still on-going or have disappeared. Is punk still being performed? Yeah, I've seen some, and I'm not even into punk. Is it really "punk", even though it's being created outside of its supposed era? That's a topic for the fans to debate amongst themselves. Same goes for old school renaissance activities: they still exist, regardless of controversy over whether they count or the movement is dead or no longer necessary.

  2. Thanks Talysman, I almost began my post by linking to your initial post on the series while saying something like "if you don't want to read my long waffle, go straight to the short version (your post) of what I'm about to say". :-)